Another day, another mass shooting >:(

"Brian, The Life of" (familycar)
12/02/2015 at 14:50 • Filed to: What the actual fuck

Stay safe, all you Inland Empire peeps.

DISCUSSION (98)

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 14:53

just another day in America

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 15:00

Can’t wait to hear the news over-report on this one too and start blaming everyone and guessing and BSing news

Future next gen S2000 owner > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 15:09

I’m generally about as pro-gun as you can get, but c’mon, enough is enough. This shouldn’t be happening.

Ash78, voting early and often > Future next gen S2000 owner
12/02/2015 at 15:11

I almost want to experiment with mandatory gun ownership just to see if the deterrent effect is real. Not a practical experiment though...lots of short-term consequences.

Ash78, voting early and often > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 15:12

At a facility for treating developmentally disabled people. I was quietly hoping it was just some isolated gang violence or something.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Ash78, voting early and often
12/02/2015 at 15:14

It would be an interesting thought experiment.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 15:17

I love guns, but come on ! This is crazy

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 15:21

Probably about time they ban them now...

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 15:24

Someone sneaks a bomb onto a plane. Now we have to go through hours of lines and security checks (which don’t sometimes work).

Someone gets a gun and shoots a bunch of people (including children). Nothing changes.

If I’m not mistaken, after one of the school shootings, many states loosened gun laws.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 15:26

Meanwhile in Canada real crimes are happening.

Man caught smuggling turtles in his pants !!!

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadia…

Ash78, voting early and often > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 15:30

Well, the theory at least is that bombs don’t deter other bombs, but guns do. That’s directionally accurate, but the gun deterrent theories still have a lot of flaws and loopholes in them.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Ash78, voting early and often
12/02/2015 at 15:32

We just need to straight get rid of them, but anyone who suggested this would be shot because this is the United States of Mutherfucking America.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Ash78, voting early and often
12/02/2015 at 15:33

I occasionally see blurbs on social media, coming from the Pro-2A side, that there’s some town in Georgia that requires every home to have at least one firearm (I don’t know how this is mandatory, town charter maybe?) They say crime is virtually non-existent, but I haven’t bothered to do any research as to how big the town is, etc. I’ll have to see if I can find something on it.

Ash78, voting early and often > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 15:36

If we could rid the world of guns and prevent them from ever being reinvented, I’d be completely on board.

Unfortunately, that’s total fantasy.

Cé hé sin > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/02/2015 at 15:37

Something that will happen some considerable time after hell freezes over. They’re addicted to their guns and arguments like “guns don’t kill people, people do” and “if everyone had guns, people would be deterred from shooting”. Take the concert hall massacre in Paris. If everyone there had arrived armed to the hilt, there couldn’t have been a massacre. Could there? Yes, there could because if you’re a terrorist in that situation you set off a car bomb instead.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Cé hé sin
12/02/2015 at 15:41

You’re right, like you say in that Paris situation they could use bombs and some of them actually did. Plus there’s a huge amount of evidence that your own weapons can be turned on you anyway.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Ash78, voting early and often
12/02/2015 at 15:42

At the very least, we need to do better background checks on the people who do buy them, discourage people from buying them, and prevent online and private sales. All sales should have to go through the government and not pawn shops and ebay and stuff like that.

Ash78, voting early and often > Snuze: Needs another Swede
12/02/2015 at 15:42

Probably some sample bias there — likely a small town with little crime to begin with, but I can see how that kind of policy would help continue the trend, as well as to perpetuate the reputation for publicity purposes. Here in AL, it’s just a given that you don’t break into houses with people home (doubly so in rural areas, that’s a death wish).

But random violent crime, mass shootings, carjackings, etc, often have the element of surprise and are generally harder to prevent (or solve) with weapons than “castle”-related robberies like break-ins. The last one is the only thing I’m really concerned with, practically speaking.

Ash78, voting early and often > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 15:45

Yeah, I’m all for keeping as much of their sales through retail stores as possible. This whole “nutjob got 10 guns at the local show” thing has gotten a little ridiculous. And ditto the background checks. Most of this could be done with little government intervention.

I grew up in a gun-owning household and we’re shopping for our first one as a family right now. Most of the people I’ve come across are amazing, safe, responsible...and then there are the others who treat guns like toys and think they should be sold everywhere, to anyone. It’s a wide spectrum.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 15:47

At a bare minimum every retail firearms purchase has to go through a Federal background check perfomed by the NICS. There are 3 issues with this - one is that NICS is only as good as it’s most up to date records, and some agencies in some states are not good about providing updated info to NICS. Second is that a background check is based on past history, not future intent. I think we can all agree that a guy that’s been arrested a few times for beating his wife doesn’t need to buy a gun. But there’s no prediction mechanism to know if someone is going to commit violent acts in the future. Lastly, this only applies to purchase of new firearms at retail establishments. This is what is required by the Federal government. Individual states vary.

After the Newtown, CT shooting many states made their gun laws more stringent. Maryland (my old home state) banned a bunch of specific guns by name (AR-15, AK-47), and now requires you to get fingerprinted, take a class, and pay a fee to obtain a handgun qualification card to buy a handgun.

What I think you’re referring to is that a lot of states made it easier to obtain a permit to carry a handgun (CCW) or did away with their permitting requirements all together (if you can legally own a handgun, you can legally carry). The theory here is that this acts as a deterrent to commiting these kinds of acts - you walk into public and pull out a gun and start firing, a bunch of CCW holders draw down on you and take you out.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Future next gen S2000 owner
12/02/2015 at 15:47

Agreed. The question I keep asking myself, though, is how do we police our own?

CounterTorqueSteer > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 15:50

You must be absolutely delusional ifyou must be absolutely delusional if you think it would be possible to remove all guns from society

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Ash78, voting early and often
12/02/2015 at 15:54

I’m not the biggest fan of guns, but not completely against them because, living in the south, you kinda have to know how to use one. All the people I know are generally good, but there are some people...

Brian, The Life of > Snuze: Needs another Swede
12/02/2015 at 15:55

There are plenty of small, rural-ish towns with virtually zero crime. I really don’t think there is any correlation, in that case.

BigBlock440 > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 15:56

If I’m not mistaken, after one of the school shootings, many states loosened gun laws.

Many states also tightened them. Some even forgot to exempt their police force from their arbitrary limits and had to scramble with an exemption.

Brian, The Life of > Luc - The Acadian Oppo
12/02/2015 at 15:56

Oh the humanity!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Ash78, voting early and often
12/02/2015 at 15:57

Agreed, I think the Georgia story suffers from sample bias. It’s been a while since I read this, but I believe following the revolutionary war, there was a law in place for a couple years that required every able bodied man to own a musket. Again, something I need to look back into.

And you’re right, a lot of violent crimes are surprise events. No smart robber is going to break into a house with people home if he just wants to steal some valuables unless he reasonably believes he can get away with it. The only people I worry about breaking into my house would be crackheads and tweakers but that’s not really a problem in my neighborhood.

Another thing to consider is the media loves these sorts of stories (mass shooting by a troubled white male dressed in some kind of paramilitary outfit and brandishing a semi-automatic rifle like an AR) because they can capitalize on fear and whip people into a frenzy. Not to downplay these incidents but when you look at the vast majority of gun crime, its perpetrated with handguns. Hell, you’re actually more likely to be punched or kicked to death than shot with a rifle. But beatings and handgun violence are usually either domestic or gang related.

BigBlock440 > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 15:57

There’s also freedom of movement, where you are free to move somewhere that you feel is more hospitable. Much, much easier than trying to amend the constitution.

Sam > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/02/2015 at 15:58

The problem is that then only the criminals will have guns. We aren’t like Europe. Guns have been in our society for so long that it would be impossible to get rid of all of them.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Snuze: Needs another Swede
12/02/2015 at 15:58

I don’t know. I think it starts with a fundamental alteration of the way we as a society view the 2nd amendment. Maybe it is time we changed it, or interpret it the way we did 130 years ago. Part of me realizes, the vast majority of gun owners aren’t crazy and treat guns the correct way - bad habits not withstanding. At some point, some one with time and motivation will skirt the laws.

But just like when we were kids, all it takes is for one person to screw it up and everyone pays for it.

It is a very complicated issue, so many nuances and details.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Snuze: Needs another Swede
12/02/2015 at 15:59

Well, I must have been mistaken.

But if the police come in, wouldn’t they come in and try to shoot everyone with a gun? And we don’t want people trying to take the law into their own hands.

BigBlock440 > Ash78, voting early and often
12/02/2015 at 16:01

http://rense.com/general9/gunla…

There is Kennesaw, GA that actually tried this experiment.

CounterTorqueSteer > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 16:01

The fact that you think someone can purchase a firearm on eBay shows your complete ignorance for gun laws. LEGAL gun sales DO go through the government. Where I live, a federal background check is required for all gun sales. You have no idea what you are talking about.

RallyWrench > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 16:01

AH, FOR FUCK’S SAKE.

Just reading news reports and making the mistake of scrolling to the comments is hugely disheartening. I know people who are of the “better stock up on ARs before they ban them” mentality and it makes me sick.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Sam
12/02/2015 at 16:01

But the criminals have guns now and civilian gun ownership doesn’t seem to help slow down those criminals very much. Many criminals have guns here too.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > CounterTorqueSteer
12/02/2015 at 16:01

We need to. I never said that it could be done. In a perfect world, we wouldn’t have them, but ours is very far from perfect.

For Sweden > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 16:02

It’s almost like it’s a complex question with lots of factors affecting the outcome.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Luc - The Acadian Oppo
12/02/2015 at 16:02

This is what tv has taught me about crime in Canada:

Kinja'd!!!

BigBlock440 > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 16:03

Actually, there is a correlation, with apparently an 89% drop in crime after the law passed.

http://rense.com/general9/gunla…

BKosher84 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/02/2015 at 16:04

Nope. This pretty much sums up Americas Gun Control:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

CounterTorqueSteer > Snuze: Needs another Swede
12/02/2015 at 16:08

I am from Maryland also. Thank you for sharing all of that information. It’s amazing how easy some people think it is to purchase a firearm, as if we just walk into a store and walk out with a fully automatic weapon without any background checks.

Shane MacGowan's Teeth > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 16:09

Different situations though- they didn’t tighten the restrictions on fertilizer. They tightened the restrictions on what you can take on the plane. Last time I checked, you still can’t take a gun on a plane either- and you go through hours of security checks to make sure you aren’t doing so.

shmulik > Ash78, voting early and often
12/02/2015 at 16:10

1. Gun control keeps guns out of regular people’s hands, a terrorist or someone that wants a gun to kill will get it regardlessly.

2. In Israel, right now, there are terrorist attacks almost on a daily basis, 90% of them end with a regular guy shooting the terrorist, not police, and not security.

CounterTorqueSteer > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 16:11

Very simply because a police officer will not always be where crime is occurring. If you are willing to wait around for a police officer while you are being assaulted, or your family’s life is being threatened, then good luck.

RallyWrench > Cé hé sin
12/02/2015 at 16:12

If everyone had guns in here, it’d just lead to a bunch of innocent black people getting shot. Wait a sccond...

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 16:14

Those are definitely common sense measures that I would support, and I’m pretty damn pro-2A. The biggest thing is stopping private sales and straw purchases.

All sales should have to go through the government and not pawn shops and ebay and stuff like that.

Pawn shops are required to perform background checks on anyone purchasing a gun, just like gun stores are. eBay expressly forbids the sale of firearms, but there are online sites like gunbroker.com and you can buy from online stores like Cabelas.com, Basspro.com etc. But these are actually all highly regulated. In fact you cant send a gun through the mail, UPS, or Fedex without providing proof that it’s going to an FFL or they simply wont ship it. An FFL is a Federal Firearms License holder, this is what allows them to buy, sell, and transfer guns and perform the background checks. The only excpetion to this is if you send a gun you own to a gunsmith to have maintenance done (and gunsmiths are required to have FFLs) they are allowed to ship it directly back to you. But when you buy a gun online or through some other means they have to ship it to an FFL in your state, where you go pick it up and that FFL administers the background check and whatever else your state requires.

The biggest problems are private sales and straw purchases. Straws are particularly bad, where you get someone to buy a gun for you when you can’t pass the background check and then sell it to you privately. There are laws against this but they are hard to enforce because by not requiring a background check for private sales, the straw purchaser can claim they had no knowledge the other party was not legally allowed to own a gun. So I’m totally on board with the idea that private transfer of a gun should be done at an FFL - Maryland used to do this with handguns and semi-automatic rifles. I sold a rifle to a friend of mine, I had to take it to a gun shop and drop it off. Then my friend went and did the paperwork and the gun shop held the gun until his background check came in approved.

El Rivinado > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 16:15

I’m starting to get tired of this, I really am. I’m sick of this shit, there’s no right way to stop it, the answer’s and situations are too complex to effectively say for certain. I don’t know what the answer is, and I don’t have one at the moment.

Oh, and before some of you go with the whole “stricter gun laws” argument, I live in California and have studied my state’s restrictive as all get out gun laws as best as I can. I know what I’m talking about when I say that's not going work.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 16:16

Oh I agree, like I said, I haven’t looked into it. If there was no crime to begin with, you can’t really prove a correlation.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > BKosher84
12/02/2015 at 16:20

Upsetting to think of it that way.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Future next gen S2000 owner
12/02/2015 at 16:24

That’s about a dangerous as it gets. Mass shootings here a practically non existent. we had a shooting were 3 cops were killed and it tripled the homicide count over the previous year in that province.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 16:24

It probably has happened, or may if it hasn’t yet. But with proper training it’s also very unlikely. I think the fact that there’s never really police around when a shooting happens is a testament to that. If I’m in a situation where I need to use my CCW weapon, mostly likely either me or the shooter is going to be dead long before the cops get there. I’m a CCW holder myslef and I’ve talked to police officers and taken classes and its the same mantra every time - CCW is a last resort, but if you’re in a situation where you have no other choice, you draw, fire, and reholster, you don’t run around waving your carry gun everywhere like some action hero. That will cut down a lot on being mistaken by police.

Ash78, voting early and often > shmulik
12/02/2015 at 16:28

I love #2 — but with compulsory IDF participation and training, I’d trust the average Israeli much more than the average...well, anyone else :D

Ash78, voting early and often > BigBlock440
12/02/2015 at 16:30

Thanks — yeah, that’s suburban Atlanta, not exact out in the sticks, and not a tiny town either.

Ash78, voting early and often > For Sweden
12/02/2015 at 16:31

Not possible. This is the internet, we need a single answer!

For Sweden > Ash78, voting early and often
12/02/2015 at 16:33

Uhhh, let’s say FWD is to blame

Snuze: Needs another Swede > CounterTorqueSteer
12/02/2015 at 16:35

You’re right, its not as easy to get a gun as people would have you believe. But also, some states are harder than others. I live in Virginia now and it’s a world of difference. Fill out 2 forms and show 2 forms of ID, and the NICS database is computerized so you typically get an answer on the background check instantly if your approved. Gun(s) goes home with you same day. And you can buy as many as you like.

The bigger problems are things like straw purchases and private sales that don’t go through a background check. And then there’s the whole issue of mental health. How do we put a mechanism in place to stop someone who is a threat to themselves and others from buying a gun while respecting lawful citizens rights as well as everyone’s privacy?

gizmo-ms3 > Future next gen S2000 owner
12/02/2015 at 16:35

As far as I know it’s almost impossible to get a license to carry in California. I think more legally armed citizens would be a great deterrent to this type of crime. There are too many guns in the US to get rid of them. People need to get their heads out of the sand and see they are responsible for their own safety. Laws don’t deter this type of thing.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Future next gen S2000 owner
12/02/2015 at 16:39

I’m curious as to what you mean by interpreting the 2nd amendment the way we did 130 years ago? How was it interpreted differently then?

And you’re right to an extent, one person screws up and everyone pays. But this is also different than kids playing with a toy or something. This is a right that’s inherent to us as citizens of a free country.

BigBlock440 > Ash78, voting early and often
12/02/2015 at 16:40

I thought it was a fairly recent thing until I read that, apparently it was done in the early 80’s. Looks like this fight hasn’t changed all that much in 40 years since.

Ash78, voting early and often > gizmo-ms3
12/02/2015 at 16:44

That’s one of the problems with disparate carry laws...the people who seek to do harm can easily find the places with restrictive laws and know their odds are much better there. It’s almost like it has to be everywhere to have the full effect. Police forces are agents of the citizens and unless we accept a police state where they’re omnipresent, you won’t see them for several minutes.

There will always be the element of surprise in places like schools and theatres, but more widespread, concealed deterrence does more good than harm. Keep ‘em guessing.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Snuze: Needs another Swede
12/02/2015 at 16:48

From what I’ve read, it used to be strictly interpreted regarding arms and militias. The gov’t couldn’t infringe on your right if you were in a militia. At that point though, I think most brought their own when they joined the militia. But I could have been reading some bs, I didn’t check other places to back it up.

It is different than kids playing with toys, I agree but the concept still holds. There is a reason you can’t bring a bottle of water through security at an airport any more.

I get that its a right to own a fire arm and it is a right we have, but we established that right. We could alter our views on that specific right if it prevents another school shooting. This is where it becomes a foggy, gray mess. We do have the right but that right has turned into an avenue for people to commit atrocities against innocent people on a regular basis.

I don’t know where the middle ground is. I’ll be damned if they are taking my hunting rifle away but I don’t want to ever have to worry about my child being shot by a psycho while they are at school.

We have to do something though. It shouldn’t continue this way.

Future next gen S2000 owner > gizmo-ms3
12/02/2015 at 16:57

I disagree about having more legally armed citizens to act as a deterrent. It’s been my own personal experience that situations where guns are produced for whatever reason be it self-defense or home invasion, guns always escalate the situation. They don’t act as a force to defuse a situation.

Also, most people are woefully under trained when it comes to brandishing guns. This extends to those who are law abiding, normal non psycho people. I don’t trust an average joe carrying a 9mm on his hip to have adequate training. The police barely have enough training to effectively deal with fire arms in high stress situations. Only the infantry and similar combat fields have adequate training - to me - to possess firearms in life threatening situations.

Most people have zero training and don’t realize the body goes through changes in life threatening situations. They are equipped to handle it. There was a woman who shot at a man robbing a store - this past summer IIRC - and her shots went all over the place.

If we can’t even get drivers ed right, I can’t believe we would get everyone to carry safely.

I just can’t see more guns solving the problem.

shmulik > Ash78, voting early and often
12/02/2015 at 17:10

I’m not saying everyone should be able to carry a gun, but making the process of getting a gun near impossible works out best for anyone planning to kill.

Ash78, voting early and often > shmulik
12/02/2015 at 17:12

Absolutely. And last time I checked, we’re still handing out driver’s licenses to basically anyone...

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Future next gen S2000 owner
12/02/2015 at 17:13

I’ve never heard that interpretation. But I do recall reading that shortly after the revolutionary war, there was a law that all able bodied men had to own a musket and report to some kind of muster once a year, to ensure that everyone was ready, willing, and able to defend the country. I think this proved to be extremely impractical and unenforceable so it was dropped. Still, the constitution doesn’t exist in a vacuum, there’s lots of evidence for it’s basis in the writings and journals of the founders as well as the federalist and anti-federalist papers. I think its generally well accepted that their sentiment is that the citizenry ought to be armed at least as well as the military to be able to repel not only foreign invaders, but overthrow the government if it became necessary. I think only lately has their been a strong legal precedent for this, such as the Supreme court decision in the Heller case, which overturned DC’s handgun laws because the 2nd amendment protects arms “in common usage at the time.” But the precedent is there and I don’t think it’s going away.

If I can wax quixotically for a moment, I think our founders were in many ways wise men (though they got some things wrong, like slavery). They fiercely independent and resourceful, well educated and well rounded men. Sadly, over the years, this american ideal of a well learned, independent and responsible citizen has devolved into a parody of its former sell (the whole ‘Murica culture). So in that respect, I think you’re right, you can’t have rights without also having responsibilities. So I’m not sure what the answer is, because I don’t know how to legislate responsibility into existence.

But I think you’re right, there needs to be a change. I just don’t think it’s going to come from legislation, in fact I don’t think it can. I think it needs to be the collective will of the people.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Snuze: Needs another Swede
12/02/2015 at 17:18

Maybe that is the crux of the issue, whether this can be fixed via legislation or the collective will of the people without legislation. Maybe a combination of both perhaps.

CounterTorqueSteer > Future next gen S2000 owner
12/02/2015 at 17:20

I agree with you. Concealed carry for the law-abiding citizen is a good thing, but only when extensive training is involved. It is scary to think that almost anyone can get a license to carry in certain states without any REAL training. I just recently attained my CWL. I have a fair bit of training, but I sure as heck will be going through more to make sure that I am responsible if I ever found myself having to draw my weapon.

Future next gen S2000 owner > CounterTorqueSteer
12/02/2015 at 17:26

Good on you. In Michigan, once upon a time, it was only a 8 hour class and then you got your license. I can’t imagine taking an 8 hour class, buying a Glock as a first weapon, and then walking around with it fully loaded, tucked under my belt but people do it.

I can’t even.

Scary__goongala! > Future next gen S2000 owner
12/02/2015 at 17:36

Seriously though. Owning a weapon doesn’t just suddenly make you crazy.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Future next gen S2000 owner
12/02/2015 at 17:49

Someone I know once said something to the affect of “this will only stop when we render guns obsolete or experience some sort of human transcendence.” And I think the more you think about it, the more sense it makes.

Getting rid of guns isn’t the answer. The knowledge and materials to build them exists. If somehow every single gun in the world was rounded up and destroyed, give me a machine shop, some bar stock and a few other materials and I could have a functioning gun in a few hours. It would be crude but it would be there. In fact we’ve probably already surpassed that with 3D printing capabilities. So we need a way to render them obsolete. I’ve often wondered if it would ever be possible to implement something like a Trophy system that was wearable (Trophy is an Israeli system mounted on tanks to intercept and destroy incoming anti-tank missiles). Could we do something similar that would stop individual bullets? Theoretically I think yes, but the practically no, not for a long time. But that’s just one idea.

The other ideal is a sort of human transcendence, one where we all just decide to stop killing one another, help one another, work towards a common good. Is this doable? You’d probably have better success holding out for that wearable Trophy system. The only thing that comes to my mind here is education, and I don’t just mean teachers salaries or standardized tests or common core or whatever. I mean one of the things that’s crucially important is learning to think critically and rationally. There are too many toxically stupid people out there latching on to one another and pushing the collective intelligence down. On top of that, we need to find ways to help one another, distribute the wealth, give people a real shot at life. Because the other thing that everyone likes to dance around is, while these mass shootings are great for media coverage, they are still a drop in the bucket when compared to all the handgun deaths that happen. You want to cut down on gun deaths, thats where you start. The problem is those are usually either domestic or gang related, so it’s not nearly as glamorous for the media to latch on to. But those are problems that we can much more easily address and it shouldn’t be a partisan issue.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > CounterTorqueSteer
12/02/2015 at 17:49

I thought you said you were in Maryland? How the heck did you get a CCW?

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Future next gen S2000 owner
12/02/2015 at 17:51

What is it in Michigan now? Down here in Virginia all I had to do was show them a DD-214 that I was honorably discharged from the military and they waived the class requirement. Although I have taken training anyways.

Whats really scary to me is places like Kansas, that are now “constitutional carry,” meaning if you can legally own a handgun, you can legally carry it. And I’m sure plenty of people are doing it. But I guess that’s where that whole responsibility thing comes in...

CounterTorqueSteer > Snuze: Needs another Swede
12/02/2015 at 17:56

I do not have one in MD. I have one in a different state that allows me to carry when I am on business.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Snuze: Needs another Swede
12/02/2015 at 17:56

Don’t know what it is anymore, but I did live there when they switched from having the person prove they needed it to the state having to prove they couldn’t have it.

Open carry vs concealed is a weird thing for me. It’s okay to walk around with a visible handgun but it isn’t okay to tuck it under your shirt? I don’t know any places where open carry is prohibited state wide.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > CounterTorqueSteer
12/02/2015 at 18:00

Ahh, that makes more sense. For a second I was thinking you were a wizard or something.

CounterTorqueSteer > Snuze: Needs another Swede
12/02/2015 at 18:01

Haha. The only person I know who has a CCW in the state of Maryland is a close friend who is a politician.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Future next gen S2000 owner
12/02/2015 at 18:07

I don’t keep up with whats going on in every single state, usually just Maryland and Virginia, but now that you mention I think I did hear that Michigan switched from may issue to shall issue. I’m generally fine with shall issue, but I think you need to provide some proof of competence, and it ought to be more than just an 8 hour lecture in a classroom.

I strongly dislike open carry. I think it’s unsafe, impractical, and frankly sends the wrong messages. But open carry is banned in a lot of states, like Maryland, California, Illinois. These states are also may issue with their CCW permitting process.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > CounterTorqueSteer
12/02/2015 at 18:12

Sounds about right. I know a few current and former police officers who have MD permits because they work security details on the side. Other than them I know one person - she was a state government employee, but also did/does the book keeping and banking for a family business and was frequently doing a lot of large cash transactions. I don’t know how, but she was able to get one (I’m sure gov’t connections helped).

One thing about MD permits that people also don’t realize is that they are usually restricted to some capacity tied into what you got the permit for. So the woman I know, she can only carry when shes going to/from the bank. I think they are slowly doing away with this, but that’s how it used to be.

gizmo-ms3 > Future next gen S2000 owner
12/02/2015 at 19:31

Lol, so a criminal breaks into your house and having a firearm to protect your family is going to make it worse? Having a firearm to give you a chance against a lunatic slaughtering everyone around you will somehow make the situation worse? The argument people don’t have enough training is asinine as well. These mass shooters aren’t SEALs and they are quite proficient at killing. Why would an armed citizen response need to be elite soldiers. Pointing and pulling the trigger is not rocket science.

BKosher84 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/02/2015 at 20:11

It is. But it’s god damned true though. The only way gun control beyond what we have now is going to happen is with an all Democratic House, which probably won’t happen anytime soon

Brian, The Life of > El Rivinado
12/02/2015 at 20:17

At bare minimum, there should be a federal standard based on our laws in CA.

El Rivinado > Brian, The Life of
12/02/2015 at 20:26

No, there really shouldn’t. Trust me, I hate the laws in this state, you have no possible idea. One of my reasons for wanting to move is exactly to get away from the ultra restrictive laws that CA has on the books. I refuse to not be safe and protected simply because of some other people dictating MY lifestyle choices because of their feelings and misguided feel-good "solutions".

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > CounterTorqueSteer
12/02/2015 at 20:36

You're right. I was angry. I said stupid shit. I'm sorry.

CounterTorqueSteer > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
12/02/2015 at 21:15

It’s totally cool. I just want more people to understand that the large majority of us “pro gun” people are disgusted with the violence just like everyone else. These tragedies make us look like terrible people, when in reality we want peace just like you want peace. God forbid that I ever have to use a weapon in self defense to protect my loved ones or innocent people around me. If that time comes through, I will be responsibly prepared.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > CounterTorqueSteer
12/02/2015 at 21:38

I do understand that. And I figure most gun owners on OPPO are more responsible than the people that do stuff like this.

deprecated account > Ash78, voting early and often
12/02/2015 at 21:54

Just out of curiosity, what do you plan on using the gun for? Hunting? Recreation? Home defense? I could offer some help.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Brian, The Life of
12/03/2015 at 04:22

i give up.

i really do.

when will America learn.

Ash78, voting early and often > deprecated account
12/03/2015 at 08:40

I think you may have already replied in my Oppo thread here: http://oppositelock.kinja.com/thinking-about…

Home defense and target shooting, but with the likelihood of some concealed carry in the future, once I feel comfortable and safe with it. Leaning heavily toward a compact 9mm, probably CZ or Glock.

WiscoProud > CounterTorqueSteer
12/03/2015 at 12:19

People demonize pro-gun people because all too often any common sense regulation trying to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill or even people on the terrorist watchlist are shot down by the NRA as anti-gun. Most people I know own guns, and support common sense regulations. However, as long as the NRA rants and screams against any regulation, it will continue to make sane gun owners look bad.

wiffleballtony > Brian, The Life of
12/03/2015 at 12:35

At what point do we just call it terrorism?

wiffleballtony > El Rivinado
12/03/2015 at 12:38

How about we stop giving these lunatics the infamy they crave by immortalizing them in the news?

wiffleballtony > Brian, The Life of
12/03/2015 at 12:39

What? No thank you.

wiffleballtony > El Rivinado
12/03/2015 at 12:39

Move to AZ or NV.

Brian, The Life of > El Rivinado
12/03/2015 at 12:40

When’s the last time you needed an AR-15 to “protect yourself?” This is the biggest red herring people throw out there when they get apoplectic about the “they’re gonna taek our gunz” that has NEVER EVEN BEEN ATTEMPTED.

El Rivinado > Brian, The Life of
12/03/2015 at 12:54

Okay first off, enough of this “need” bullshit. Contrary to popular opinion, we actually are smart enough to realize that, it’s just that 90% of us are also hobbyists. By your logic, you don’t NEED to have what you say on the computer be protected by the first amendment, it’s called the bill of rights for a reason. Do we NEED an AR-15 to protect ourselves? No, but we WANT an AR-15 for other purposes beside self defense. (Also contrary to your pre-conceived notions, the idiots that take pictures of themselves open carrying ARs at Wal-Mart as blatant ‘fuck yous’ are ripped to shreds and bashed by the vast majority of Gun owners as being irresponsible douchebags that are making us look bad)

Also, yes no one’s attempted to take our guns from us. But don’t think we’re so paranoid that we don’t have an unfounded precedent. Want proof?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_LaBJ…

That's not some edited footage of a paranoid raving madman wearing a tin-foil hat and waiting for the black helicopters to come. That's MY state senator blatantly saying that if she could do something like this, she would. And guess what? Feinstein still holds the SAME OPINION she held twenty years ago, so even though it may be just one example, it's an example nonetheless.

El Rivinado > wiffleballtony
12/03/2015 at 13:03

I was thinking Texas, Arizona's nice but I don't know much about how the rest of the state, and I could never survive the Nevada heat in the slightest. Unless, there's something about Texas I should know.

wiffleballtony > El Rivinado
12/03/2015 at 13:21

Personally, the humidity in Texas is a deal breaker. And if gun laws are important, AZ is more lax.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Snuze: Needs another Swede
12/07/2015 at 14:31

That would be Kennesaw, GA. It’s a city ordinance, in place since 1982. Not like it mattered, since most people that live out that far already own firearms.